by Stephen Lacey
March 09, 2017

Stephen Lacey: In recent months, we've seen a sharp increase in requests from listeners asking us to cover jobs in cleantech. They want to know where the jobs are, what kind of skills are needed, how to get trained, or where to go to school. There are lots of educators or people at economic development agencies trying to stay ahead of the curve as well. If this industry becomes as big as everyone says it will be, how are schools and local communities going to reap the benefit? This subject is particularly relevant right now when everyone is talking about the future of work. We are in the middle of one of the most dramatic, one could even say violent economic transitions in history.

The forces of globalization, automation, and consumer tech are shattering our traditional notions of work. In parallel, cleantech and other distributed technologies are changing what it means to work in energy. This week I'm sitting down with Tamika Jacques, the Director of Workforce Development at the Massachusetts Clean Energy Center. We are here at the MassCEC, and she's going to help orient us in this new energy economy to the best of her ability. Tamika, thanks very much.

Tamika Jacques: Thank you for having me.

Stephen Lacey: MassCEC opened its doors in 2009 in order to provide financial and technical advice to clean energy companies to boost the local economy and disclosure, MassCEC was an early investor in Greentech Media. To start, we're going to take a look at what it takes to build the cleantech job strategy in a state or region, because Massachusetts has been really successful. Then we're going to get into common career questions and maybe look out further and explore the nature of work as well, which everyone is thinking about, and it's changing faster than we imagined. What does the Director of Workforce Development do, Tamika?

Tamika Jacques: Part of my job is really in line with MassCEC because we are an economic development agency. Really my day-to-day is making sure that I am developing innovative programs for all the residents in Massachusetts. That could mean someone that's in kindergarten to someone that's transitioning in their career to maybe that someone's retiring and wants to start a new business. Every day is a different day here at MassCEC, but as long as we're developing innovative programs that can really help all the residents of Massachusetts. That's a little bit of my job, that's part of my job.

Stephen Lacey: What's your long-term goal then?

Tamika Jacques: My long-term goal is to make sure that I'm really in tune with what the market says. We have a clean energy industry report that we give out every year. We do data around it. It's really my job to make sure that I am looking at that data, how it comes out, and I'm able to translate that data into programs that can benefit all of the residents in Massachusetts.

Stephen Lacey: That data's looking pretty good. I think in the most recent report, Massachusetts now has over 100,000 jobs across the cleantech sectors. What's going on within those numbers?

Tamika Jacques: Within those numbers, solar is definitely one of the high-employed numbers and also energy efficiency. Specific more to Massachusetts, there's different sectors within. We see an uptick in electric vehicles. We see an uptick in offshore wind, so really the industry is wide open at this point for 105,000 workers as it was listed in 2016 in various sectors. It's wide open right now.

Stephen Lacey: This industry sees a lot of ups and downs. Businesses thrive and then the next year they may be hurting. There may be a lot of job opportunities in one sector and then they're just nonexistent in the next couple of years. How does that impact how you look at developing a workforce in Massachusetts or New England, and what are some of the bottlenecks or issues you've faced as you've tried to build jobs in this space?

Tamika Jacques: Sure. The first one that I could think of is that in the beginning, we were an educated industry. A lot of the companies wanted engineers and developers. That shut people out in the beginning, but now that the products are being developed, they really need people that can sell the product or install the product. I think before that was a bottleneck as far as wanting someone that was highly educated, your engineer or your Ph.D. student, but now I feel like it's opened up, because now you can go work in energy efficiency with a certificate. As you're building your credentials, we call them stackable credentials, you can move through the career path. I think in the beginning, it might have been a little bit of a bottleneck, but I think now that the products are developed, they need to be sold. A lot of companies need that type of talent and skills. That type of talent and skills often doesn't take a higher degree for that.

Stephen Lacey: Would you say it's easy to get a job in this sector in Massachusetts?

Tamika Jacques: Yeah, I would say that. If you look at our 2016 report, you'll see that a lot of associate degrees jobs are open. They're looking for people with certificate trainings. I think that not only is this an opportunity sector, but it doesn't matter what your major is as well. I've had a student that was a childcare major, and she found out about our internship program. Her skill was she was great at office management. Even though she was childcare major, she was able to take her internship as an office manager and move into the industry. I think that it is easy no matter what step whether if you're a new college grad, if you're trying to transition into this pathway, I think it definitely is there's a lot of entry points that are available to everybody.

Stephen Lacey: Why invest in this sector? Why did Massachusetts rally around cleantech specifically?

Tamika Jacques: Just to jump back a little bit. You said why, I think the evidence actually is there. We're seeing our numbers now. In 2016, we've seen a 6 percent growth in jobs. Since 2010, we've seen a 75 percent growth. I think that if you look at also the numbers, 70 percent of the jobs in this industry you can make $50,000 or more, and that's more than the median income in Massachusetts. I think that this was a viable sector that you just couldn't skip over it. I think that when we talk about STEM -- science, technology, engineering and math -- I think that that's big, so that's very big.

The cleantech sector, while it's very small, it's very vibrant, and we're talking about a billion-dollar industry. We're an economic development agency, so it's all about economic development for our residents when we're talking about the workforce. This was an industry that could provide a good economic means for someone that has a family and wants to provide for their children, wants to send their children to college, or just wants to have a better life than maybe what they've previously done.

Stephen Lacey: We've got a lot of questions from listeners, many of whom sent in questions via Twitter or who have emailed us. I want to try to get to as many of those as possible, because it's on the top of everyone's mind. Let's just start off with folks who are early in their career or who are students considering moving into this space. What should they be looking for in terms of skills development and resources that will help them figure out exactly what they want to do in this very broad sector? People always say, "I want to work in clean energy." That can mean a lot of things.

Tamika Jacques: Absolutely. The first I would say is find an internship. MassCEC has a very extreme internship program as I have probably placed over 2,000 students in internships at clean energy companies across Massachusetts. I would say to someone really think of the sector that you want to try out, because the great thing about being an intern is that it's for a limited time. If you don't like it, you can just say, "Oh, I didn't like that," and then try something else out. I think that if you're a student, it's important to try to get an internship and try out each sector to see what you like. Also, part of that is really networking.

I think networking is really key, because you need to be able to go to different events that might happen whether it's at Greentown Labs, participating in their EnergyBar, but being able to network so that you can talk to people and get to know what their day-to-day job is or attend a clean energy conference. We sponsor a symposium for college students. I think there's a lot of resources here in Massachusetts, and I think our universities also do a great job of providing events and having speakers. I would say really try to tap into some good networking opportunities, and I think that will help someone really get started to see where they fit into this industry, because it is very big.

Stephen Lacey: One more disclosure. GTM has also used that internship program. We found some great people through that. I couldn't agree more about going to events too. The internship piece a lot of folks talk about, but I don't hear people talking about the need to go to events as much. We're lucky here in Boston, because you could go to a new event every night. There are world-class universities and the level of speakers and the level of discussion is very high. I talked to students at a lot of the events who come in, and they just want to start meeting people.

It's a really great way to get a feel for what people are talking about and can give you insight on the way that people are thinking about issues that you might not read in an article or in a brochure somewhere. OK, what if I'm considering what to do in a university? I'm an undergraduate student or maybe I'm looking at getting an MBA. Are there particular programs around the country that you think stand out that people could look at? At least when they're evaluating a program, what should they be looking for?

Tamika Jacques: I think that programs that can give you a diverse mix of classes. A lot of times if you're going for an MBA, you can decide what your concentration is going to be. Instead of just going to an MBA program where you just get an MBA, I think it's important to ask those questions. Is there a way that I can concentrate in if it's energy efficiency or whether it's around data. I think those are our best programs, because not only do you come out with an MBA, but you also can say that you've had a concentration, so you've taken four or five classes, and that you're an expert in this subject based on the classes that you've taken.

I would just encourage someone. Even with there's a lot of certificate programs that people can take now, even at community colleges, definitely Bunker Hill Community College has a great certificate program around energy efficiency. I think that if you can find a program that also would give you some hands-on experience, so whether it's just even able to provide a job shadow for one day around someone. I know some MBA programs allow that or a program where they give you some real experience where you're solving a problem for a company. I think those are the best ones where you have to do a capstone and really solve an issue, so as you're transitioning, you're using that class to show what you've done.

Stephen Lacey: If I'm a person who has not gone to a specialized program, maybe I'm a liberal arts student and I haven't really done anything specific in the renewables field, but I know that I have a passion for the environment or I'm really interested in getting into the solar industry in some way. What are some pathways for people who are coming out of their undergraduate degree with more generalized experience who want to get into an area that requires more specific experience?

Tamika Jacques: That's where networking comes in, because I think that there's a lot of people that will apply to a job. I could tell you to have a great resume and match what it says on the job description to that change your resume every time. I could tell you that, but I really think the key if you want to transition into this industry, is to really go out to events as you mentioned. The face-to-face I feel is a lot more important than a piece of paper on a resume. If you're able to network and be able to really tell someone your story, I think that helps a lot of times more than just your resume. All of our skills are transferable, and it's important to show that on your resume. I think networking really gets you that face-to-face and able to tell your story, so that would be my advice. As I said, that just continue to network, network, network.

Stephen Lacey: Our events team may hate me for this, but we often take volunteers. We're probably going to get a flood of emails, but we do take volunteers from undergraduate programs or people who are just getting their start in the industry. They get to come to our events, help us out, and then start networking with people, so there's a real high value to that as well. We recognize that and I highly encourage people to try to figure out ways to get to events. There are ways that you can get into events for free. You mentioned in the beginning that there are a lot more trade jobs here in Massachusetts as the clean energy economy has grown. Any areas that are particularly noteworthy that people should be paying attention to?

Tamika Jacques: I'm going to revert back to solar, because that is one of our highest numbers. I think in Massachusetts we are unique. A lot of times when they're installing the solar, you have to be an electrician. Whereas in other states, it's not so much you have to be a licensed electrician. We talk about transferable skills and to be an electrician, yes, you want to install solar, but again, there's also other things that you could do when you're not installing the solar.

If you're a licensed electrician and there's really good pathways, but as well, offshore wind has an uptick as well. There are other labor unions that it takes to go on the water and to be OSHA-certified and to climb up tall towers or to be a diver. Something, if you have a passion for diving, that that's another opportunity for you. I think because of offshore wind is coming and I think that it's more than just one vocational pathway. I think there are several of them out there.

Stephen Lacey: Has Massachusetts done anything specific to integrate certification programs or to help folks who are in the trades make that switch so that they can start taking on new types of jobs?

Tamika Jacques: I can speak to a few years ago, during the ARRA funding.

Stephen Lacey: That's the stimulus package signed in 2009.

Tamika Jacques: Through that funding, we were able to actually do weatherization training and that was at community colleges all across the state. That specifically was for trades people that were in this industry and wanted to get a certificate to build again a stackable credential, to build upon those skills. They were able to do that as well as we also funded the painters union as well as they're painting bridges and they're spray-painting bridges. We don't want that paint coming in the water, so they were trained around that as well. MassCEC has invested in training programs for people that just want a certificate or vocational programs.

We also have invested in high schools that are vocational as well, partnering with our Solarize program. One of our high school programs partnered with Solarize and over at Greater Lawrence Technical Vocational School, and those students were already electrical students. They were able to partner with Solarize Andover, and they actually installed the solar on someone's roof in the city of Andover. MassCEC has definitely invested in the vocational pathway, because again, not everybody wants to go to college. The opportunity is wide whether you just want a certificate, an associate, a bachelor's. There are so many opportunities.

Stephen Lacey: I hear from a lot of folks who are mid-career and who see the opportunities in this space and want to change jobs. They always ask, "What are the best areas to get into and how should I sell myself in order to work my way into one of these fast-moving companies?" What generalized advice might you have for someone who's looking to make that mid-career switch?

Tamika Jacques: It really depends on what their interests are I want to say. I think that someone that's an accountant can definitely come into this industry. Someone that is able to sell a product well if they have that sales experience. I think right now as you see in our industry and it talks a little bit about this in the report, is that again as I mentioned, in the beginning we had a lot of Ph.D. and engineering jobs were needed, but right now the products are being developed. We really need someone that can market those programs and can sell those programs. I think that if you're looking at sales or marketing, you're trying to find what your niche is, I would say if you think that you have that gumption to be a seller, try that, or if you think that you can help us market this industry, I think we're always looking for that. If not, cleantech is also manufacturing as well, so I think that manufacturing is a good opportunity as well.

Stephen Lacey: That's a powerful point there, because a lot of people imagine wind turbine technicians or data scientists or any number of jobs in cleantech, but what you just said there is that all the jobs that apply to any other industry are extremely important in cleantech. It's no different, and the industry is becoming so integrated into the local economy here and the national economy that it's really not a lot different than any other high-tech sectors. Do you experience or do you see people experiencing ageism or having a problem acquiring new skills that will make them relevant when searching for a new job opportunity? How much of that is an issue when people are looking to make that switch mid-career?

Tamika Jacques: I haven't heard a lot about ageism per se. Like I said, you can be in high school and join this industry. You can be in your 30s and join this industry or you can be retired and say, "I want to develop this product, and I want to put it out to market." I think that our industry really is good on supporting the diverse ages. What I will say is that our industry could use help with is is attaining the women, because I think we are a very male-dominated industry. Because of that, it takes a little bit more to really invite all women into this industry and let them know that they also are a valuable resource to us.

No matter what the age, again, we can use you in this industry. You might not want to be 65 performing air blower tests or installing installation, because you just don't want to do that at that age. Someone who is 25 and vibrant and can do that, that's something they may want to do, and that's a good career pathway. I think that because our industry is wide open and it's vibrant, we don't struggle with the ageism as much as making sure that the diversity component is, I think, a little bit bigger of an issue.

Stephen Lacey: This is a good time to recognize you for receiving an award recently. You got a Rising Star Award from the New England Women in Energy. Is that what the organization is called?

Tamika Jacques: Yes.

Stephen Lacey: Yes. What does that organization do exactly?

Tamika Jacques: They're talking about women. They bring women together all from New England who are in energy, clean energy.

Stephen Lacey: Is that field big? Are there a lot of women in this region in that space?

Tamika Jacques: There absolutely are, because it's not just clean energy. You have energy companies as well as energy lawyers. It's wide open. At these events that NEWIEE sponsors and again, talking about networking, you get to meet someone from a national grid that is a lawyer or other energy companies. It is such an honor to be recognized. The Rising Star Award is for professionals that are less than 10 years in this industry, so it's such an honor. I would encourage women or male actually to join that organization, because talking about networking and they have events all over New England. They're always talking about issues. I think it is a great organization.

Stephen Lacey: This industry like the energy industry, it's a little bit better in terms of diversity, but it still does have a diversity problem. What do companies need to do to be able to attract people from all sorts of different backgrounds? Genders, races, religious backgrounds, experiences, you name it, why is that a good strategy in the first place and what kind of strategies should they adopt internally to make sure that they're getting from the biggest pool of people possible?

Tamika Jacques: Sure. I think that they should develop partnerships with diverse agencies. For MassCEC, this is something that is very important to us throughout the whole industry. One organization that we're partnering with to market ourselves and to tap into another network that we haven't tapped into, is the American Association of Blacks in Energy. We also awarded grants to the Asian-American Civic Association. If you're looking for women to come into your organization, then partner with NEWIEE so that your job is advertised or go to NEWIEE events. If you're looking for people, like you said, regardless of their background, religious, partner with that organization that you're really trying to target. I believe we will have success if we do that. Sometimes we just have to think outside of the box and not just advertise on a webpage. Sometimes it's easier to advertise on a webpage, but also just to partner and do events with these organizations and you'll meet the people that's needed for your organization.

Stephen Lacey: I don't want to put words in your mouth, but my perception of the hiring process for many companies from what I've heard from people, is that it's kind of a good-old-boys' club. You continually go to the people that you know and very often, because this is a white, male-dominated industry, people go to their long-time friends and colleagues, so the cycle perpetuates itself. Do you see that as a problem in hiring generally?

Tamika Jacques: If I said no, I would be lying. Yes, it is a problem, but I also believe that because we are so innovative and our industry is open to having diverse people in it. We see it all the time. We don't see it maybe in the numbers that we want to see it, but our industry is very open. I think that's the importance of networking, because you get to know somebody. When you meet someone, you really don't know who they are. You don't know their story. If you keep going to the same events, you will run into some of the same people. I think that yes, some people have said it's an old-boys' network, but I think that as diverse individuals are let in, then they'll bring other people that look like them.

Yes, that's true, but I think that this industry is also open to have diverse candidates. In 2015, 24 percent of the new hires were women. Imagine if 24 percent of the new hires were women, then they have to bringing other women in with them. I think it's important for when we get a job to really pay it forward when you find someone that is talented in the skills to really guide them and mentor them through to show them how to get through this industry. I think if we all did that, no matter if you're a male or a female or what your diversity is, I think that we would see the numbers go up, but we have to intentionally do that. I think that that number, while it's low, the 24 percent number, but those are women that are in, and they can bring other people with them.

Stephen Lacey: It's a positive iterative cycle. What's unique about this industry is that it is so incredibly diverse sectorally. Therefore, you just have an enormous number of job opportunities, everything from manufacturing to back office to installation to operations and maintenance. That diversity is, I think, a real critical piece of what makes cleantech unique.

Tamika Jacques: I definitely agree. This field is open to anyone. Wherever you are in your life, so whether you are just coming in for a certificate, whether you're coming in for an associate's, a bachelor's, being an engineer, an accountant, a childcare major, I believe that we are a very diverse industry and all the way up to the engineers, to the Ph.D.s, we are definitely and this is Massachusetts, so the number of universities and the places where you can go to to receive that education at Bunker Hill Community College if you're going for a sustainability certificate.

The opportunities are endless. Because this is Massachusetts, you might have heard this week that U.S. News World and Report just ranked our state No. 1 of all the states. I think that that's a good indication that we have economic stability here and there's definitely more to come. I know it's going to be positive, and we will take anyone. This industry is really open for anyone regardless if you're 18 or if you're 70, you have this new program, and you're looking for someone to invest in, to be an entrepreneur, and start a new business.

Stephen Lacey: Massachusetts and the Boston area has an embarrassment of riches. You have world-class universities. You've long had a biotech and high-tech sector. You have people from all over the world coming in here as professors, as students, and to start up companies. That infrastructure was kind of already in place. What happens to a region that may not have any of that infrastructure, it needs to start from scratch? Any advice for someone with maybe a similar job to you in a different area of the country?

Tamika Jacques: Sure, yeah. I think that you just have to want to have...that attitude to persist, because I don't think I'm different than anyone else. That's why that we've really started reaching back to our middle schools and to our elementary schools, because if you have an awareness in kindergarten of what clean energy is or STEM is...a light bulb goes off. Then you're able to go through your educational pathway knowing that there's opportunities available to you. We're sponsoring clean energy activity days in Massachusetts where we are going to six elementary schools across the Commonwealth, and we are sponsoring a day with them to do activities. For instance, Brockton is going to put together solar ovens for their students or we have a local high school in Boston, the Mario Umana Academy, who is also going to put together solar wind kits. We're talking about fourth graders.

If you're aware of that in third and fourth grade, and someone is showing you the opportunity, talking about how you can get involved at a young age, and you keep on progressing that, then when you decide what you want to do, whether you go on a vocational pathway or if you want to go into higher education, you're already aware of what you need to do to get there and what it takes. I think that that is something that our industry is just starting to do is reaching back to the younger folks to let them know of opportunities. Along with the STEM Council in Massachusetts, it's something that is definitely one of their priorities to make sure that you're not getting this information as you said, the establishment, at a late age, that you know about the establishment at an early age.

Stephen Lacey: I'd like to broaden this a little bit and contextualize this amidst the sweeping economic changes that we're seeing. As I mentioned in the introduction, automation is really changing what humans are going to be doing in a lot of the traditional jobs in this country. Clearly, a lot of people are still going to be making things with their hands, but many of the jobs that require repetitive motion are going to be gone. Even many of the jobs that require higher education are going to be supplemented by artificial intelligence.

One of the biggest employers in this country, truck driver, will soon potentially disappear because of automation. I don't think people have really grappled with the shift that is coming. Cleantech fits squarely within that change. As someone who thinks broadly about workforce development, has a long career in this, and is also focused on this fast-growing industry, how do you contextualize this amidst the massive economic changes that we're going through? How do you think about getting ahead of those changes is what I'm asking?

Tamika Jacques: Yeah, I think that we try to stay ahead of them by again, as I mentioned before, stackable credentials. We know that you're an engineer, and you have this degree, or we know that you have a certificate in energy efficiency. As you said, everything is going to be automated, so someone won't even be driving a truck on the highway as scary as that sounds. I think that if we can stay ahead of the curve by getting a stackable credential, so when new technology comes out, because you're still going to need a programmer, you're still going to need a coder to do that, you're still going to need an accountant to pay your staff to develop this, so as new technology is coming, I think it's important for us to stay ahead of the curve and be inventive about it. That's what the community colleges, that's what they founded on, is that they were there to make programs that didn't need a lot of changes, so that they could be responsive to the business community. That's what their missions are if you look at their missions.

Stephen Lacey: I think what is most interesting about the economic shift that we're going through is that it's really worked its way into politics in a way that has made it so that everyone is talking about it. How are we going to put people back to work? What is the role of globalization? It's brought the issues that you work on into a much greater political context. Now everyone is talking about under say a Trump administration, how do you reach the people who feel economically disconnected? How do you bring some of these regions back to life?

I'm just wondering, without making policy prescriptions, do you have any generalized advice for how to contextualize or how to think about growing new industries, maybe specifically clean energy? How to support some of these new industries and how that feeds into policy-making. I know you don't want to say this is what policy should be in place, but I think there are general principles that you've abided by that may help people think about this as they start to address these issues around the country.

Tamika Jacques: I think that a regional approach is always good, to start regional, to start local, to start with your community. When you look at training programs, I think that if a local region really knows where the jobs are and the best paying jobs, I think we can be focused on those jobs to making the community aware. If you have some really intense trainings, not everyone has six months to go to a training program, but if you can also find a way to make programs more intense. Whether it's a four-week training program, a five-week training program, and then after, have some hands-on training as part of that with paid hands-on training, not just working for no wage, I think you give someone a taste of what it would be like to work in that industry. I think that it's more about being aware of what's happening in your region, what's happening locally. I think that's how we will be able to help the people that maybe are dislocated, unemployed, really get into our industry nationally. Not just in Massachusetts, but nationally.

Stephen Lacey: What about the regional variability of some of these jobs? In Appalachia for example, communities have been losing coal jobs for decades because of mechanization and now that coal is under threat from both natural gas, cheap renewables, and some regulation, many of those jobs are just probably not going to come back. Everyone says, "Well, let's apply the principles of cleantech economic development to these communities." Can the same principles that you're adhering to in Massachusetts be applied to those communities? Do you think that many people in the coal industry or the oil and gas industry can make their way into this industry?

Tamika Jacques: I absolutely believe that, because we all have transferable skills. No matter what you are doing, all your skills are always transferable. The Federal Department of Energy just said that in solar, that solar employs more than coal, gas, and oil, and that's across the country, so there's 300,000 workers. I think that those employees that are part of the coal and the gas industry, we would welcome them, because again, their skills that they have, their skill sets, we can use them in the cleantech industry as well. I think that if those workers are made aware of the opportunities that are on this side, they would want to join our industry if they find themselves losing their jobs.

Stephen Lacey: We were debating this in a recent podcast. My cohost, Jigar Shah, said, "There are opportunities out there, but you can't just take one regional model and apply it to another region. Some people are just going to have to move." He's a big believer that people moving around this country is going to open them up to new opportunities, and that's a really tricky issue. You can't just say to people who have been there for multiple generations in Appalachia, "Sorry, you can get a job, but you're just going to get up and move." I'm wondering if you see that as a problem in that yes, a lot of these jobs are going to be out there, but they may not actually be in these regions where coal has historically reigned or where the oil and gas jobs have historically been. There is a really specific regionality to this that's tricky.

Tamika Jacques: My personal opinion is that they do not have to move. If policymakers really want to be able to help their local community and help their residents, they are going to have to invest in the infrastructure and invest in business development of getting the businesses there, and I think that's why Massachusetts has been successful. We do serve as a model for other local communities because our governor, whether it's signing the energy bill that he signed this summer, he's committed to that, and I believe our policymakers are committed to that as well.

Stephen Lacey: Do you have any final advice for job-seekers out there?

Tamika Jacques: I would encourage them, again as I said, to network around, to definitely go to events when you see them. I would just encourage them to really do their research, try to find some hands-on learning opportunities for them, whether it's a job shadow day, being able to job shadow someone in the fields, but I would just encourage them that no matter what your age is, no matter what your race, your religion, your diversity, this sector is for you and we are open. We want you.

Stephen Lacey: Can you give us some resources that people can look up so that they know what kind of educational and certification programs are out there and what kind of companies are hiring?

Tamika Jacques: Sure. The first one would be MassCEC has a jobs board. It allows you to see the jobs and also post your resume on that jobs board. That's MassCEC.com\jobs. You can go to that website. Also CleanEnergyEducation.org will allow you to see all the universities in Massachusetts, all the certificate programs, associate's, bachelor's, master's, Ph.D. programs, and also just encourage you to look at our industry association, the Northeast CleanEnergyCouncil.org. You should go on their webpage. If you are a woman, I encourage you to go to NEWIEE's webpage. There are so many. If you Google "Greentown Labs," that will help you see some events that happen in the local Somerville area.

Stephen Lacey: That's a lot of resources.

Tamika Jacques: That would lead you. Yeah, that would lead you to some good networking opportunities, some great events, and some awareness.

Stephen Lacey: Yeah, absolutely. We'll feature many of those links in the podcast show notes. Again, just backing up what you said, Tamika, go to events. Listening to conversations and hearing how people are framing this stuff, is really helpful for figuring out how to work your way in and apply your interests to this industry. Tamika Jacques is the Director of Workforce Development at the Massachusetts Clean Energy Center. Thank you so much.

Tamika Jacques: Thank you for having me. Thank you.

Stephen Lacey: This is the Energy Gang from Greentech Media. You can catch all of our episodes on SoundCloud, Stitcher, iTunes. All of our back episodes are there and at GreentechMedia.com. Feel free to send us your feedback, your questions, your ideas at [email protected] or hit us up on Twitter. Feel free to ask us more questions about workforce development, and thanks for joining us. We'll catch you next week. I'm Stephen Lacey for The Energy Gang.