Energy Storage: What Is the Cheapest Solution?

By signing up for solar and wind power, utilities have to invest in energy storage. There are many options, but most are pricey.

Utilities really have no choice but to invest in energy storage. But what will prove the cheapest option?

It depends on how much you are trying to store and for how long.

If you are a utility and you need persistent, long-term storage, good old pump hydro technology remains one of the cheapest. The cost to store energy at a pump hydro facility is about $3 million per megawatt, said Ed Cazalet, co-founder of MegaWatt Storage Farms and a former board member of the California Independent System Operator, at Greentech Media's The Networked Grid conference on Thursday.

A pump hydro facility sends water from a lower reservoir to an upper reservoir during off-peak hours for storage. It then lets it tumble down through turbines to generate electricity when needed, usually during peak demand.

Cazalet estimates that California will need 4 gigawatts of persistent storage to meet its "33 percent by 2020" renewable mandate. (Storage gets measured in capacity.)

Using sodium sulfur batteries would cost about the same, though they would afford only about six hours of storage, Cazalet said.

Newer technologies, such as lithium-ion batteries, are much more pricey. Lithium ion would cost $1 million per megawatt for 15 minutes of storage, he added.

"That will go down to a third pretty soon," Cazalet said. "There are massive investments in batteries for the automotive industry. That's bound to drive the costs down."

Although lithium-ion is more expensive, it can also deliver power faster. Thus, batteries will likely be one of the dominant technologies for temporary storage – i.e., systems that store and discharge power constantly.

Temporary storage will be used to balance the grid and handle fluctuations of power from distributed solar panels. Sodium sulfur batteries are one of the few technologies that seems to straddle both markets.

Lithium-ion batteries also tend to be efficient. The technology could provide 90 percent efficiency – that means there is only a 10 percent energy loss when electrons move into the battery and when they are retrieved. Others have proposed flow batteries for grid storage as well.

Pump hydro and sodium sulfur batteries, on the other hand, have about 75 percent efficiency.

Another plus: Lithium-ion batteries aren't dependent on geography. Pumped hydro storage and large-scale compressed air storage require reservoirs and caves. Some companies have proposed man-made containers for compressed air, but that adds cost.

California has favorable geology for storage in many respects, but utilities must take their caves where they find them, and then tie them into the grid with transmission lines.

Utilities across the United States are signing renewable power purchase agreements or building their own solar or wind farms in order to meet state mandates for using cleaner electricity.

Twenty-nine states and the District of Columbia have such renewable energy mandates.

Solar and wind farms can't produce energy around the clock, unlike fossil fuel power plants and geothermal fields. Geothermal power is considered a clean source of energy, but finding new steam reservoirs is difficult and expensive. A promising technology to engineer reservoirs hasn't proven to be feasible.

Utilities want the ability to manage their supply and demand at a moment's notice. Energy storage would help. It could even be a good substitute for building more transmission lines.

"It's not just the economic but also the necessary reliability investment," Cazalet said. "The cost of batteries will be the deferment of the cost of transmission."

Pacific Gas and Electric has about 1,200 megawatts of pump hydro storage located in California's Fresno County. Building more pump hydro storage is likely to run into strong environmental opposition these days.

PG&E plans to install 4 megawatts of sodium sulfur batteries in San Jose soon, said Hal LaFlash, director of emerging clean technologies at Pacific Gas and Electric Co.

The utility has also applied for a $25 million federal grant to build a 300-megawatt storage in Kern County (see PG&E Wants DOE Dollars for Underground Air Energy Storage). PG&E expects to find out whether it will get the money by the end of the month, LaFlash said.

The proposed facility would mostly store power from wind farms, and do so by using that wind power to compress and pump air into an underground storage. The air can be then let out to run turbines for electricity generation.

Robert Schainker, a senior technical executive at EPRI, meanwhile, says compressed air will ultimately be the cheapest (see What Is the Cheapest Energy Storage Idea of Them All). Compressed air, though, hasn't been as actively developed as pumped hydro. Only a few experimental facilities have been created. 

25 Comments

  • mds 11/6/09 12:41 AM

    “Lithium ion would cost $1 million per megawatt for 15 minutes of storage, he added.”
    That would be $4,000 per kWhour of storage.  No way.  Carnegie Mellon was using $1,000 per kWh and GM was saying: “No, the Volt Li Ion battery will be significantly less than this.”  Also, there are at least two companies down closer to $300 per kWh for Li Ion.  ...that’s 1/3 of $1,000 or 1/12 of $4,000.  Boy, talking about misinformation.

    Reply
      • Charles R. Toca 11/17/09 4:27 PM

        mds - you are both right - sort of.  The cost of lithium ion is in the range you quote, but if you fully cycle the battery 100%, full kWh charge, full kWh discharge, you will wear it out in about 600 cycles.  So most applications only use a fraction of the battery capacity.  For example, the Volt will only use 50% of the capacity of their battery pack - so the cost per usable kWh will double. http://tinyurl.com/ydrwqbu

        Lithium ion systems used for grid support use only a fraction of their capacity, which we estimate will allow them to cycle thousands of times for years.  See the report by KEMA on Altairnano 2 MW / 15 minute system: http://tinyurl.com/5v3zru

        Southern California Edison wants to build an 8 MW, 4 hour A123 lithium battery for $25 million.  Based on total storage, that’s about $780 per kWhr.  However, if they only use 15 minutes, then the usable storage is only 2 MWhr, or about $12,500 per kWhr.  It isn’t misinformation.  Mr. Cazelet is providing expert information based on the limitations and benefits of the system.

        Other systems, like the VRB flow battery, can be fully cycled without damage, so their true cost per kWhr is accurate at around $700.  http://www.Utility-Savings.com

  • mds 11/6/09 1:03 AM

    There is some other obvious storage options being missed here:
    1. One of the big power users is for cooling in the sun belt where solar will be most cost effective.  AC units that save money by making ice when power rates are low and then use the ice for cooling when power rates go up, are increasingly available.  (This turns out to be an old trick used to cool theaters back when AC units weren’t large enough to handle such a large load.)  Right now cheaper power is available at night when obody is using the coal generated power.  With more solar available, and as it continues to decline in price, the cheapest power will be available during daylight hours, inspite of increased use during this time and better load matching.  These AC units will then be making ice during the day for use in cooling during the night.  Essentially you’re storing power for cooling in the form of ice.  Very cheap storage used for one of the biggest power loads in the sun belt.
    2. Molten salt storage in central tower type Concentrated Solar Thermal (CST) plants can be stored under ground and used later in the day at reasonable cost.
    3. We have huge amounts of natural gas available in the shale deposits in the USA.  So forget storage and use solar and wind in combination with natural gas peak power plants.
    If you’re going to get into this discussion then provide a table of options and reasonable estimates of their costs.  This article is very conjectural.  $1 million per megawatt for 15 minutes for Li Ion is a way-out-to-lunch number.

    Reply
      • Glenn2ns 11/25/09 7:31 PM

        seeking to clarify rough values for renewable storage (kWh basis).  Can you comment?
        (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)

  • jcs 11/6/09 7:08 AM

    Great input mds, please forward any info you have on the cooling concepts. I live in a hot country with huge AC power loads. (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address).

    Reply
      • mds 11/6/09 11:07 AM

        http://www.ice-energy.com/products/howitworks/tabid/163/Default.aspx  Load leveling AC system that uses ice – May 2007
        Note: Used just to save peak load energy costs, but can also be used with solar power and batteries to cool at night with reduced power use.
        http://www.ice-energy.com/Default.aspx?tabid=207 “Ice Energy Secures $25 Million in Series A Financing” – May 2007
        http://www.ice-energy.com/technology/tabid/53/Default.aspx  Ice Energy
        “Using thermally efficient, off-peak power to produce and store energy for use the next day, Ice Energy’s Ice Bear is the industry’s first energy storage solution specifically developed for small to mid-sized commercial buildings, and is applicable to both new construction and existing facilities.”
        “Designed and tested for optimal performance in operation with Ice Bear distributed energy storage systems, Ice-Ready™ Rooftop units (RTUs) are available from leading manufactures Trane, Carrier, York and Lennox.”

        http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/the-ice-age-returns-to-offices1-3879/  - May 2009
        “Calmac: The Ice Age Returns to Offices”
        “Calmac’s massive ice makers are gaining favor as a way to cut power bills.”
        “Back in the 1920s and 1930s, movie theaters made large amounts of ice at night to cool theaters, explained Mark MacCracken, CEO of Calmac Manufacturing, which specializes in thermal mass cooling. Power was relatively inexpensive, but air conditioning wasn’t as nuanced as it is today.”
        “High power prices, along with a push toward LEED-certified buildings, are putting it back on the map. Calmac has installed ice systems in 3,500 buildings, including several high-profile projects.”
        “Demand is largely being driven by peak power prices and the effect air conditioning has on midday power consumption.”  “Electricity is far cheaper at night than the daytime. By making ice at night, the power required for air conditioning is essentially moved to nighttime. Boring as it might sound, air conditioning is now a big deal.”      “ ‘Peak is 30 percent of the electrical draw on a hot summer day and it is all cooling,’ MacCracken said. ‘We have shifted gigawatts of power.’ “
        http://www.calmac.com/  Calmac is featured in article above.  mds
        “IceBank energy storage tanks store renewable energy, like wind and or inexpensive clean efficient night-time electricity, in the form of ice for comfort cooling use during peak demand periods the next day. Reducing the peak daytime demand for electricity can cut cooling costs 20-40%”

        http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/icecycle-night-cooled-ac-retrofits/  “IceCycle: A Retrofit”  - October 2009
        “IceCycle has a new retrofit version of the peak load-shaving ice-cooled air conditioning systems made by companies like Calmac and Ice Energy.”

        http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/better-cold-water-through-software-5925/ - March 2009
        “Better Cold Water Through Software”      “Office buildings are just big water coolers. The idea behind Optimum is to keep them comfortable with less chilling.“
        http://www.optimumenergyhvac.com/  Mentioned in article above. 
        They achieve savings on HVAC energy use with smart software controls.  mds
        “Optimum Energy ‘replaces energy, with software intelligence’ by reducing energy consumption and operating costs with no impact on occupant comfort.”
        “can reduce HVAC energy usage by 30-60% for decades to come”

        http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=47992  AC designed for use with solar panels – April 2007
        “only climate control equipment in the world that uses direct, renewable DC input to power its internal 24-volt operating system”
        http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/partner/story;jsessionid=27E598B4D75AC315B67DB9B00EA1BCE5?id=48606  SolCool solar AC system – May 2007.
        http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/partner/story?id=52425  SolCool One, LLC – first HVAC system delivered – May 2008
        “SolCool One, LLC and Senergy Cooling Systems Deliver First DC Millennia HVAC to Houston, Texas”
        http://www.solcool.net/

  • Charles R. Toca 11/6/09 1:59 PM

    Lithium Ion gets lots of buzz because they are the best solution for cars - if they can keep them from exploding - and this means we should have lots of them lying around someday - assuming people buy a lot of cars and figure our how and where to charge them - I park in the street.

    There are technologies that are suited for bulk storage and available now.  Besides the molten (600 degrees F) sodium sulfur, there is the VRB-ESS - flow battery technology, for about the same price.  No heat, no pressure, no emissions, 20 yr life, little O&M, unlimited deep charge cycles, and first used at wind farms.  More information at http://www.Utility-Savings.com.

    Reply
  • Carl Hage 11/6/09 5:20 PM

    When referring to energy storage, please use “kWh” or “MWh” not MW. We pay for electricity in kWh not kW. Both figures are needed, except for grid stabilization, where power over a short interval like 15 minutes is important.

    Reply
  • Victor Babbitt 11/7/09 2:52 PM

    The #1 take home message here is:  “Intermittent renewable energy will require more grid regulation”.  This regulation can either be from present regulation generators which supply AGC grid frequency control or spinning reserve or from batteries.  Batteries would do a wonderful, and mostly better job of regulation, and would replace the present generators for peaking and regulation, which are the most polluting of all generation sources.  To make a generator change output very quickly, you sacrifice efficiency, and increase pollution.  Not so with a battery.

    The #2 take home message here is that batteries are presently too expensive.  That is changing, and changing quickly.  Between the several redox flow battery flavors being developed, Sodium-Beta batteries, and Metal-Air batteries, a reliable battery that meets the market is on the way.. but it’s not the big present battery corporations that are developing it.. this is an inflection point in technology where one or two of the 40 small companies I’m tracking will be a $Billion company in 5-10 years.  See http://www.silentenergy.com for more.

    Reply
  • FDDoty 11/16/09 10:13 PM

    You’ve done a great job Uci with most of your articles, especially on PV, but your primary source here provided a lot of disinformation.  I’m writing an in-depth analysis of the energy storage options, which I’ll present at the ASME ES conference next spring.  The paper, ES2010-90377, probably won’t be available until shortly before the conference, but the abstract follows:

    There is the general perception that increased grid-scale energy storage will facilitate expansion of renewables.  Most discussions of costs and competitiveness of storage options have addressed cycle efficiency and capital costs of energy storage in terms of both $/kW and $/kWhr.  However, likely number of cycles per year, marginal value of delivered energy, impact on GHG emissions, application-specific expected lifetime, discount rate, likely trends in the markets, and other factors have seldom been addressed, at least for grid-scale applications. 

    The levelized costs of delivered energy from the leading technologies for grid-scale energy storage are calculated using a model that considers likely number of cycles per year, application-specific expected lifetime, discount rate, duty cycle, and likely trends in the markets.  The expected capital costs of the various options evaluated – pumped hydrostorage, underground pumped hydrostorage (UPHS), hydrogen fuel cells, carbon-lead-acid batteries, advanced adiabatic compressed air energy storage (AA-CAES), lead-acid batteries, lithium-ion batteries, flywheels, sodium sulfur batteries, ultra capacitors, and superconducting magnetic energy storage (SMES) – are based on recent installation cost data to the extent possible.  The marginal value of the delivered stored energy is analyzed using recent grid energy prices from regions of high wind-energy penetration.  The above list is in order from most competitive to least competitive.

    Grid-scale energy storage is expected to lead to significant reductions in GHG emissions only in regions where the off-peak energy is very clean.  These areas will be characterized by a high level of wind energy with cheap off-peak and peak prices.  At the expected daily price differentials, the only conventional options expected to be commercially viable are hydro storage and UPHS.  The market value of energy storage for short periods of time (under a few hours) is expected to be minimal for grid-scale purposes.  Only low-cost daily storage is easily justified both from an economic and environmental perspective.

    A lesser-known energy storage option, Windfuels, is also briefly reviewed.  Here, excess off-peak electrical energy is used to synthesize standard liquid fuels, such as gasoline and jet fuel, from CO2 and H2O.  Simulations have shown that innovations should make it practical to reduce CO2 to CO at 90% of theoretical efficiency limits.  When combined with other process advances, it should then be possible to synthesize hydrocarbons and alcohols from point-source CO2 and off-peak clean grid energy (wind or nuclear) at system efficiencies in the range of 52-61%. The cost of the tanks for storing energy in jet fuel, ethanol, and diesel is only $0.02/kWhr.  The cost of storing vast amounts of energy in batteries, compressed air, or flywheels would be several thousand times greater.

    Reply
      • glenn2ns 01/11/10 10:38 PM

        Is your paper available yet?

  • Ucilia Wang 11/16/09 11:21 PM

    Thanks for sharing it, FDDoty—looks like a comprehensive analysis. Would love to read the paper when it’s available.

    Reply
  • Ice Makers 11/18/09 12:32 AM

    what a excellent water reservoir with good battery back up.hope that u will read this blog for using this product…..

    Reply
  • Ice Makers 11/18/09 12:34 AM

    Grid-scale energy storage is expected to lead to significant reductions in GHG emissions only in regions where the off-peak energy is very clean.  These areas will be characterized by a high level of wind energy with cheap off-peak and peak prices.  At the expected daily price differentials, the only conventional options expected to be commercially viable are hydro storage and UPHS.  The market value of energy storage for short periods of time (under a few hours) is expected to be minimal for grid-scale purposes.  Only low-cost daily storage is easily justified both from an economic and environmental perspective.

    Reply
  • mds 12/2/09 2:23 AM

    Mr. Toca,
    You’re part right and I should have clarified.  Big part of the problem here is two fundamentally different grid storage requirements are being discussed:
    1.  Short term, very high power flow, storage for grid stabilization and power source change over.  I’m guessing chemical batteries provide an advantage as Mr. Babbitt says, but this type of use is incredibly hard on most batteries, as you point out.  Yes, I’m sure this is where Mr. Cazelet’s $12,500 per kWhr cost is coming from.  (It is misinformation when you don’t put it in this context.  Pretty nasty misinformation when uninformed individuals then try to apply it to vehicles or long term power storage.  The context should be there.  I too should have added it.)
    2.  Long term power storage for power that’s only available part of the time.  The classic example is solar.  You need more kWh of storage to use at night.  The power draw (kW) is not as heavy for the same mass of batteries.  I’m not saying lithium batteries make sense for long duration storage, but the cost per kWh would be far less for this.
    It is important to point out your example of the GM Volt is also misleading.  They’re a big company, doing a major launch, of a cutting edge new technology.  They don’t want any dis-satisfied customers and they’re being very conservative.  The first link you provided me describes a BMW concept car using 80% of its lithium battery charge.  This will be far more typical in the future.  ReEV vehicles like the Volt and this BMW concept will need short bursts of high power for initial acceleration, but they will never pull the 16kWh or 10kWh battery all the way down in 15 minutes.  This is unique to problem #1 above for the grid.
    You also have to be careful about saying “the cost per usable kWh will double”.  You’re quite correct, but the cost of 16kWh battery will be the same per kWh, because they’re only use 8kWh.  I’ve seen people double the 16kWh cost in response.  It is really just misleading to point that out.  They can get 50 miles all-electric out of their 16kWh battery and the cost per kWh is whatever it is …don’t think they’ve said yet …but much less than what Carnegie Mellon bozos stated in their study …they did say that.
    I’m not a professional in this field, but I’ve been following internet posts on battery information.  I have 9 companies listed that have achieved a deep cycle life greater than 3,000 cycles.  Some do much better than this and the batteries are still very useable.  One example:
    Toshiba (SCiB battery) – TiO2 – 80% good after 6,000 cycles at ?% DOD - 50 to 67 Wh/kg (up to 10,000 cycles) (150,000/month production)  DOD=Depth Of Discharge.
    There is probably some specmanship, because they don’t usually say how deep and it makes a difference how fast you discharge.  I’m speculating most are discharging 70% or 80% of the way.  Another example:
    Thunder Sky – chemistry? - 2,000 cycles at 80% DOD   3,000 cycles at 70% DOD   62.5 to 75 Wh/kg (in production)
    Typically discharge testing is done far more rapidly than what you see in a car.  Cycle-life testing takes too long if you don’t use faster cycle times.  This is harder on the battery to do this, just as deeper cycling is harder.  Yes, vehicles do require short bursts of high power for rapid acceleration.  Most new lithium chemistries can handle shorter bursts of power without much additional wear.  This can be mitigated in a vehicle design by adding a smaller bank of more expensive super-capacitors and this is being done.
      Thank you for the link on use of Altairnano batteries for grid stability. Interesting!  Earlier information from them:  Altairnano – TiO2 – 85% good after 15,000 cycles at ?% DOD – 90 Wh/kg   (reproducible results?  DOD level) (Low production.)
    Lithium TiO2 seems to have a considerable cycle-life advantage over “safe” lithium chemistries with Mn2O4 & FePO4.

    Reply
  • mds 12/2/09 2:23 AM

    I will also be very interested to the FDDotys final paper.  I live in the Seattle area.  We have significant wind resources right next to the Columbia River with its series of dams.  (There is also a series of dams on the Skagit River and in Northern California on the Sacramento River.)  I was already wondering what the relative cost of pumped hydro power storage was.  I’m wondering if water can be pumped from one dam reservoir up to a higher reservoir when there is excess power.  Would it be worth the cost?  I’m guessing it would be pretty cost effective based on the low cost of hydro power.  It is interesting to see it at the top of FDDotys list.  I’m wondering if Washington, Oregon, Northern California and BC hydro can be used as storage for California and Nevada solar.  We already have HVDC tie lines between Washington and California.
    FDDoty,
    Why don’t you have Flow batteries in your list?

    Reply
  • mds 12/2/09 2:25 AM

    Another mixing of problems occurs with this subject, besides mixing short term storage for grid stabilization with longer term energy storage.  Solar and Wind are always lumped together.  I see the two as being different with respect to grid stabilization.  Some areas are already having trouble stabilizing the electrical power supply when large amounts of wind are in use.  The wind can start or stop blowing over wide areas very suddenly.  I can see how this would be a problem.
    Solar is different.
    1.  Power use on the grid is not stable.  The amount of power drawn is constantly changing.  Distributed PV on houses and businesses will mostly just offset day-time (peak) power demand.  It will just change the already variable demand picture and may actually help reduce peak loads at times.  As PV power reaches grid parity and becomes more common, peak power demand will become a night time phenomena.
    2.  One of the major uses of electricity in the sun belt of the USA is for air conditioning.  There are already systems that can make ice when power is cheaper and use the ice later for cooling.  Now, they make ice at night when coal power demand in lower and use it during the day.  In the future, these systems can be used to make ice when PV power is plentiful during the day and use for cooling at night.  In this way PV power will be used to fill the largest power need …even before electrical power storage becomes a factor ...essentially eliminating the current diurnal peak power hump in the USA sun-belt.
    3.  Clouds are the only thing that reduce the electrical output of PV, CPV, or CST during the day.  Most of this should be predictable using real-time satellite monitoring and communications.  After all it is the 21st century now.  If you have regions joined by HVDC lines from the East to West coasts in the USA, then power can be shared across the sun-belt.  (The same should work on the Asian continent for China.)  Areas with clouds can get some power from those without clouds.  Changes in PV output should not come as a massive surprise the way changes in wind can.  Balancing of PV power generation across the USA sun-belt should be feasible, if not outright easy.
    4.  There are areas where cloud cover is almost never an issue, like the Mohave Desert.
    5.  You do have to have over-night power storage or use an alternative source at night.  Some CST plants are already being built with molten salt storage.  Huge amounts of shale gas have just become economical to produce in the USA, so we could use this at night.  (Remember we’re already reducing peak demand for AC by producing solar ice, we’ll be using more LED lights, and other electrical demands at night are lower.)  Finally, you can also consider all the electrical power storage methods mentioned by FDDoty above: “pumped hydrostorage, underground pumped hydrostorage (UPHS), hydrogen fuel cells, carbon-lead-acid batteries, advanced adiabatic compressed air energy storage (AA-CAES), lead-acid batteries, lithium-ion batteries, flywheels, sodium sulfur batteries, ultra capacitors, and superconducting magnetic energy storage (SMES)”  …and also by Charles R. Toca above: “the molten (600 degrees F) sodium sulfur, there is the VRB-ESS - flow battery technology, for about the same price”

    Bottom line:
    A. Solar power is far more predictable and stable than wind.  The wind can just stop blowing, but there is always some light from the sun shining down during the day.
    B. WE WILL BE ABLE TO INSTALL A HUGE AMOUNT OF SOLAR POWER BEFORE ELECTRICAL POWER STORAGE BECOMES AN ISSUE.
    C. We can use shale gas and bio-gas at night until electrical power storage can be accomplished at a reasonable cost.  Electrical power storage is now developing much more rapidly.
    The truly great news is there really can be a limit to increasing energy costs.

    Reply
      • Bob Wallace 12/20/09 6:27 PM

        “Some areas are already having trouble stabilizing the electrical power supply when large amounts of wind are in use.  The wind can start or stop blowing over wide areas very suddenly.”

        You might want to take a look at this article.  It describes the behavior of wind generated electricity during two recent extreme wind conditions in Spain.  Spain has a unified grid that combines inputs over a large geographical area, the sort of area smoothing of which Archer and Jacobson speak.

        And it talks about how Spain dealt with the extreme blow back last January which caused them to put many of their turbines into protect mode by calling on their pump up hydro storage system.

        http://www.carboncommentary.com/2009/11/15/853

        And here is what I’m finding to be a very entertaining real time look at Spain’s wind daily input, updated every three minutes.  It’s a good way to see how “quickly” the wind stops or starts.  Turns out, it seems to be not that quick if you link farms over a wide area.

        http://www.ree.es/ingles/operacion/detalle_curva_eolica.asp?grafico=ieolica20091219&hoy=1&ho=7&mi=2

        If you to got http://www.ree.es you can work your way to look at wind performance on a date of your choice.

        And they do a nice presentation of their daily prediction of how much power they will need and update it every three minutes with actual demand.  That “noon dip” in demand?  Siesta….

      • Bob Wallace 12/20/09 6:37 PM

        Sorry, should have given this link in my final paragraph.  It’s the English version of the site for those who don’t read Spanish.

        http://www.ree.es/ingles/home.asp

        And here’s the page on which you can pick a date and view what the wind did on that day.  Looking at a few dates should give you some idea of how “fickle” the wind is.  Or is not…

        Click on the small gray calendar icon, pick a date, and then click on “Watch Image”.

        http://www.ree.es/ingles/operacion/curvas_eolica.asp#

  • James Macnaghten 12/6/09 12:44 PM

    Question for FDDotys - Who is actually working on UPHS?

    I would have thought the cost of excavating an underground chamber would be pretty horrible when you look at the energy density. This is the one area where you are better off looking at some form of CAES - you use the water to provide a constant pressure head on the cavern. The reason it makes sense for CAES is that the work done compressing ambient gas to, say 60 bar, is an order of magnitude greater than the energy from pumping water up 600m. I did some rough numbers on this a while ago but sadly can’t lay my hands on them at present.

    Reply
      • Bob Wallace 12/20/09 7:17 PM

        UPHS - a company called Riverbank Power.

        I can’t tell from their site how they are planning on doing the actual excavation, but it seems like a good job for a tunnel boring machine. 

        http://www.riverbankpower.com/

        Riverbank claims to have done the math and found private money to finance the project. 

        Right now there is a lot of money to be made off electricity arbitrage - buying when prices are low/below zero and selling back when prices are higher. 

        Here’s a nice page which describes the arbitrage process.  And a great graph which makes one wish they had the storage capability to buy some of that <zero power and sell it back for $200, $300, and more a few hours later.

        I’m guessing that storage will find its first use for short time arbitrage until that market is saturated and then will move to shifting power over longer time periods, from off-peak to peak.

  • Bob Wallace 12/20/09 6:59 PM

    “Building more pump hydro storage is likely to run into strong environmental opposition these days.”

    There are some 80,000 existing dams in the US and I recall that only a couple thousand are used for electricity production.  A recent survey of federal dams found many which have all the requirements to produce electricity (adequate head and flow, not in restricted areas, etc.) and didn’t detail but stated that many more would be adequate for pump-up hydro storage.

    Converting an existing dam to storage would require excavating a lower level reservoir.  All dams which I’ve seen have an area beneath them that is set aside for emergency spillage, so the real estate is already there.  Existing turbines would need be swapped out with combination turbine/pumps or have separate pumps installed. 

    Dams currently not being used to produce electricity would obviously need turbine/pumps installed and transmission lines would have to be run.

    There’s an additional solution to using hydro to balance out wind and solar installations - hydro uprating.

    Take an existing hydro-electric dam, install additional turbines, enlarge the catchment/settlement area below the dam and convert it from “baseload” to dispatchable power.  Let wind and solar produce when they produce best and then when their input is low call on the uprated dams to fill the void.  The 75%-85% efficiency of pump-up hydro goes away as we would be using non-pumped water. 

    http://neuralenergy.blogspot.com/2009/06/hydroelectric-uprating.html

    Reply
  • glenn2ns 01/11/10 11:18 PM

    Seems CAES in California is a higher risk environment, due to so many active faults.  Regarding hydro, is there a loss factor of water due to static evaporation or dynamic steam from the heat input of the infrastructure?  Water is like gold now - especially in California.  Can anyone provide a resource for better learning the major/minor points of power storage?

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