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Michael Kanellos | August 10, 2009 at 10:39 AM 8 Comments

Vinod Khosla: A123, EEStor Not So Hot, My Investments Good

Vinod Khosla, the man behind Khosla Ventures, is listing his turn-offs again.

The "What Vinod Doesn't Like" piece is pretty much a standard, recurring phenomenon in green. A few years ago, he argued with Hermann Scheer from the German Parliament, about photovoltaic panels. At other times, he's championed ethanol and criticized other approaches. 

In Grist this week, Khosla criticizes battery maker A123 Systems, which makes lithium ion batteries, and EEStor, an ultracapacitor maker.

A123, he points out, lost out to LG Chem in the contract for the Chevy Volt:

"I think the traditional approach to lithium ion battery making, such as A123, is going to be competing in an overheated, nearly-commoditized market and will probably not (I guess never say never!) get down the cost curve in the next 5 years... A number of incremental improvements are underway, but they will at best offer a 2X improvement in price performance."

Like other lithium-ion battery makers, A123 will also be hampered by the fact that these batteries have flammable electrolytes, which forces companies to insert expensive safety measures, and won't live up to performance claims. It's a legit argument in many ways. To make its battery safer, A123 uses a lithium-phosphate chemistry, which can't hold as much energy as the more volative lithium cobalt or lithium-nickel manganese. One of the reasons General Motors went with LG Chem was the chemistry issue. Nonetheless, Chrysler has signed a deal with A123.

As for EEStor, the ultracap maker, the Vinod says:

"If EESTOR-like approaches work (I am somewhat skeptical of this particular company, though I believe new science similar to that proposed in its patents is possible), then so much the better. But there is very little visibility today on these radical approaches. I would say these are in the domain of a hope and a prayer."

To be honest, that's the opinion of a lot of people. EEStor has drawn various critics. Even people I've spoken to who've toured their labs have come away mystified.

China, India, get real, black swans, etc. etc.

So what does he like? Seeo, which makes solid electrolytes, and Sakti3, which makes a solid-state battery. The firm has investments in both.

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Comments [8]

  • windbourne 08/10/09 1:03 PM

    This is the same guy that said that Ethanol would take over the world by storm. Myself? I will wait to see what eestor does. At this time, I think that vinod is NOT the one to follow.

     Reply
  • Green Energy Reporter 08/11/09 5:11 AM

    Khosla seems to be more focused on cutting edge biofuels —enzime -based crude and algae-based ventures. It seems that when it comes to clean energy, he’s bet biofuels will lead!

     Reply
  • Baghead 08/11/09 8:34 AM

    windbourne, Dick Weir/EESTor has been attempting since the early ‘90s to manufacture this super ultracapictior to save the world from fossil fuel if you believe the blogger with the bag over his head.  Dick Weir and you will be waiting another 20 years for EEStor to save the world.

     Reply
  • windbourne 08/11/09 3:29 PM

    Actually, Baghead, I will not be waiting another 20 years. I will not wait another year. If he is going to succeed, it will be in the next year. There have been too much information dropped, including that recent “leak”, that says he will have proto later this year (i.e. before 2010). My thinking is that if it does not occur within 6 months, then it is another scam.

     Reply
      • steve pluvia 08/12/09 2:13 PM

        Windbourne, Eestor is nothing more than a vehicle for a Canadian pump-n-dump, specifically Zenn Motors. Zenn has a powerful Canadian hype team supported by a crooked bucket shop (Paradog Capital), paid promoters and degenerate gamblers.  Experts in the field of Eestor’s technology do NOT believe the claims in their product are not supported by the laws of physics.  The trade here is to short Zenn on all pops from here forward.
  • Danager 08/13/09 1:25 PM

    Steve - which laws of physics are those?  Some of the combatants of information pull out their first year physics book to claim that EESTOR technology is beyone the realm of physics.  I have yet to see a competent analysis against their technology though many have tried.  One risk for this stock could of course be the management team, but the most appropriate conversation for those shy of this stock is where to find an investment that is more comfortable for them.

     Reply
  • StevePluvia 08/13/09 3:07 PM

    DanAger, Zenn is not an “investment”; Zenn Motors is a bankrupt company, with no viable product, that survives by selling stock.  Amazingly, they manage to do this by hyping eestor—another company with no product, only patents for a gee-whiz super-duper capacitor which they refuse to prototype and experts in the field say cannot be made.  The law of physics most appropriate to this situation is Newtons Law of Gravity; i.e when Ian Clifford and Paradog Capital cause dog crap stocks to shoot into the stratosphere, you don’t want to be around when they fall…

     Reply
  • Robert M 08/26/09 6:33 PM

    On EEstor, Its no wonder there is so much negative press about this company. They have no marketing, investor or public relations or a website. I hope this is real technology, but I spoke to Mr. Weir Just recently and his attitude was essentially “Go F%$@ yourself, read my press release.” I work for one of the largest users of battery systems worldwide and the guy who is going to make all the money by putting this product on the market can’t be bothered to discuss non-technical general inquiries regarding his product. ZENN does not respond to any E-mail and does not return calls. I was very supportive of this technology for 2 years, now I am very skeptical

     Reply

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