• Friday, November 20, 2009 Latest Update: 4:41PM
Michael Kanellos | November 20, 2008 at 5:27 AM 8 Comments

Better Place Putting Stations in SF?

Project Better Place, the organization that wants to set up chains of electric charging stations and seems to generate a new press release every 20 minutes, will make an announcement today in San Francisco City Hall with Mayor Gavin Newsom.

What to expect? Probably that BP will insert charging stations in San Francisco. Newsom, who once owned a General Motors EV-1, is determined to make San Francisco a green city. San Jose already has a deal with Coloumb Technologies to put electric charging station in San Jose.

Shai Agassi, the former SAP exec who founded BP, has said that it will take around $1.5 billion to electrify California. He gives a great speech too, but several doubters exist.

For one thing, BP wants to create a system that will let car buyers swap their batteries at charge stations. Batteries take several hours to charge; swapping allows you to get on the road quicker. But are consumers going to put a stranger’s battery in their car. Consumers have accepted swapping propane tanks for barbecues, but cars could be another matter.

Electric cars only go around 150 miles before conking out. BP is putting stations in Israel where it makes sense. You can’t go 150 miles without hitting the ocean or enemy territory. The system might work in Australia too, where most people live in coastal cities. But in California? Are consumers really going to buy a car in the $30,000 to $40,000 range that isn’t as functional as their cheaper gas car? It’s going to take work.

Oh, and then there’s the cost of the stations. Will gas stations put these in? They had to be forced to start making it easier to sell ethanol. All of these factors are one of the reasons that many people, at least the ones I talk to, are skeptical.

Comments [8]

  • Art M. 11/21/08 5:10 AM

    The battery swapping is just for when you need to exceed the battery limit of the car in a single driving session.  If you expect to routinely exceed that limit, then you are probably better off with a plug-in hybrid or regular hybrid.  Folks that have studied this claim that it’s a minority of drivers.

    Reply
  • Joe the Engineer 11/20/08 8:03 AM

    Swapping batteries is ludicrous.  Both from a consumer and a Auto OEM perspective.  As a consumer, I buy a brand new car with a battery that has a 100 mile range, the first time I swap it out I get a battery with a 60 mile range because it is two years old.  From an Auto design and engineering standpoint, I am now supposed to design a 2 foot by 3 foot panel on the side of my car to roll in and out a 600 lb battery and error proof the connection such that any yahoo can do it safely.  No way!

    This is all about getting fed and state money to install charging stations.  Then blame the auto makers for not building the cars.

    Reply
  • Mark Goldes 12/1/08 2:12 PM

    A Much Better, “Better Place” is Coming!
    Project Better Place reflects a commendable vision “an oil-free future and a healthier, safer planet”. The program projects fully electric automobiles - with a battery swapping program as well as numerous recharge outlets. However, to the surprise of almost everyone, batteries may soon be technologically obsolete. When that occurs, all new cars and vehicles, of every conceivable variety, are likely to feature all-electric propulsion.

    Hans Coler, a German inventor, demonstrated an electronic alternative to batteries in 1926. His work was examined by two teams of university professors. A distinguished scientist found there to be “no fraud, hoax or fault” involved. Coler stated that the magnet strength remained constant. Space, since the time of Paul Dirac, is believed by eminent scientists to be chock full of energy. Converting some of this energy, seemingly from nowhere, as well as a second new source of energy, is now the subject of new science and technology. The second source is ambient heat and reflects Maxwell’s interpretation of thermodynamic laws. Both open a path to powering our planet without the need for fossil fuels. They can replace the need for batteries of all sizes with a power source which maintains constant output and never needs to be recharged.
    The ultimate application is the potential to turn parked cars into power plants. Equipped with fuel-free generators that produce perhaps an average of 100 kW - parking lots can be equipped so that power can be sold to the local utility. No physical connection will be necessary, as technology already exists that can wirelessly transmit up to 150 kW to the power grid. Car owners can be paid. Many vehicles may even pay for themselves over a reasonable period of time.Those who experience these changes will be living in a far better place.

    “All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.”  Arthur Schopenhauer

    Reply
  • Norrin Radd 11/20/08 10:27 AM

    Vasu,
    Citing Tesla as proof that EVs are the future is misguided at best.  $108,000 boutique exotic 2 seater sportscars built on Lotus ICE chassis solve none of the epic problems we face.  Epic fail for Tesla and epic fail for your comment.
    Norrin.

    Reply
  • Norrin Radd 11/20/08 9:13 AM

    Joe the Engineer.
    In the alternate universe where this battery lease/swap model works - we reduce our reliance on imported fuels, curb greenhouse gasses, and use our shiny new smart grid to make V2G storage a reality.  The newly nationalized American automotive companies take the engineering challenge you pose and run with it and we make the cultural changes to accept this new transportation paradigm.
    Problem solved with innovation and know-how.
    Norrin the surfer

    Reply
  • Better Place Community 11/20/08 9:44 AM

    We are very excited to bring the electric car infrastructure network to the United States and happy to announce California as our first state to do so! Follow us on Twitter @bpcommunity to get to conversation started. We want to chat with you!

    Reply
  • ronpierre 11/22/08 11:29 AM

    I would expect more from an article from you Michael.
    You offer no balance in your “arguments”.  “are consumers going to put a stranger’s battery in their car”  - Probably the most difficult part to evaluate for a car buyer of an electric car would be the state of the battery.  Better places model of leasing the battery takes away this problem.  The batteries are owned and leased by better place.  The owner doesn’t need to worry about how old they are, how many charges are left or how to maintain them, also the currently high cost of the batteries (about 12 to 13k for better place ones has been quoted) can be amortised over time.  Money that is saved by what would have been spent on petrol pays for the battery, electricity and the car over a period of time.  I think this innovation would be an enabler of electric vehicles, rather than an inhibitor as you suggest.

    You then cite a problem with the 150 mile range and mention “cheaper gas cars”.  When you take the life time cost of the vehicle into account, including servicing and petrol, the electric vehicle plan Better Place puts in place is way cheaper.  If you did some research on the costs you would not have made this comment in your article.

    When a person can plug in and charge at home every night, then for 90% of the time the 150 mile range is not a problem for anyone - isreali, Australian or Californian.  On a longer trip, if you dont stop for 150 miles you will probably fall asleep and kill someone anyway.  A three minute battery swap when necessary is not a big deal.

    Your final point about the cost of the stations is mystifying.  You obviously haven’t read the better place business model at all.  The battery swap stations and power outlets will be put in by the company, prior to the first cars being sold.  Deutch bank have analysed the plan and given it the thumbs up, as have some large corporate investors, including Macquarie infrastructure in Australia and others.  Perhaps they did a little more investigating than you.

    Reply

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